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President Donald J. Trump had just delivered a fiery speech on the Ellipse in the early afternoon of January 6, 2021, when his supporters began their assault on the Capitol.
After his speech, as he climbed into his armored vehicle, Trump quickly brought up a topic he often brings up after a public appearance. “How big was the crowd?”
But within 30 seconds, his conversation with the lead Secret Service agent took a more controversial turn, according to a transcript of an interview released Monday by House investigators with another Secret Service agent who was driving the car. It is said that it became. Trump wanted to go to the Capitol, but his chief surrogate, Robert Engel, said he had no plans.
“The president was adamant about going to the Capitol,” said the driver, whose name was not released. “It was clear he wanted to go to the Capitol. He wasn’t shouting at Mr. Engel. He wasn’t shouting at me. His voice was certainly high-pitched. But he didn’t seem annoyed to me–certainly not, and he didn’t seem as irritated or excited as he was on the way to the Ellipse.”
But the driver said Trump never lunged at the steering wheel or physically addressed the staffers, the most sensational testimony by a White House aide to a House committee on January 6. It was strongly contradicted by elements of debate. The driver’s notes are the first time extensive eyewitness accounts of what happened inside the armored vehicle have been made public.
“I couldn’t see him reaching,” the Secret Service driver told House committee investigators. “He was never behind the wheel. I never saw him lunge to get into the front seat. You know, it wasn’t so much his physical presence that was noticeable. It was the irritation in his voice.”
The driver’s notes add details to one of the most scrutinized episodes of January 6, 2021. The records were never made public by the House Committee on January 6, which made an agreement with the Secret Service for 12 interviews to avoid “privacy” revelations. Information, information for official use only, confidential intelligence and law enforcement records, raw intelligence information. ”
Republicans say the committee’s failure to release the records contradicts some of the official version of the case by Cassidy Hutchinson, a high-profile witness who served as an aide to then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. He suggested that it was for the sake of it. Hutchinson testified in June 2022 that she heard second-hand or third-hand what happened from someone else. Republicans criticized the committee’s decision to promote her account of Trump’s actions in the car.
A letter from Department of Homeland Security General Counsel Jonathan E. Meyer explained why the driver’s records were not released. The House committee asked the department to scrutinize records of classified information that should be protected from disclosure so that the rest becomes “part of the historical record.”
More than a year after the driver was interviewed in November 2022, authorities are still reviewing the records, Meyer wrote to House Republicans in February. He ruled that redacted versions of six interviews, including those with drivers, could be released to Republicans as officials investigate the commission’s activities, looking for signs of fraud or bias. said.
Republicans planned to incorporate a copy of the report into the committee’s work Monday afternoon.
“This first-hand testimony directly contradicts Cassidy Hutchinson’s story and the story of the former J6 Select Committee member,” said Georgia, who has been leading the House Republican effort to investigate the committee’s Jan. 6 bias investigation. said state Republican Rep. Barry Loudermilk. “Even though the select committee had this important information, it promoted Mr. Hutchinson’s third-party version of events in its final report.”
Former special committee aides countered that the committee’s final report included details of interviews with drivers and that there was no cover-up. The final report also references Mr. Engel’s testimony, but neither transcript was made public at the time.
The commission’s Jan. 6 report, referring to Anthony M. Ornato, said, “Mr. Engel did not characterize the interaction in the car as Mr. Hutchinson described what he heard from Mr. Ornato. He said he had no recollection of President Trump making any gestures toward him. Ms. Hutchinson cited her as one of the sources for her story, as she is the White House deputy chief of staff and an active Secret Service official.
“The driver testified that he did not remember seeing President Trump do anything, nor did he remember whether there was any movement,” the commission’s report added.
“It is difficult to fully reconcile the testimony of the several witnesses who provided information with what we heard from Mr. Engel and Mr. Ornato,” the report concluded. “But the main factual point here is clear and undisputed: President Trump made specific and repeated demands to be taken to the Capitol. He returned to the White House, persistent and angry. Afterwards, he continued to insist that he go to the Capitol.
The driver’s account is the most detailed first-hand account yet of how Trump behaved in the presidential motorcade that day, as it traveled the short distance from the White House to the Ellipse.
According to his driver, Trump had already started the morning feeling “pretty shaken up and pretty frustrated” on his way to the Ellipse. There was “a tinge of anger” in the president’s voice as he spoke to Engel, who was a passenger in the car.
The driver said Trump was angry at Vice President Mike Pence, who was resisting Trump’s efforts to block Congressional certification on the day of Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s Electoral College victory. .
“I don’t remember exactly what he said, but I remember he was upset that the vice president was reluctant to certify the Electoral College,” the driver testified. did.
After a speech in which Mr. Trump repeated baseless claims about election fraud, attacked Mr. Pence and infuriated a crowd of his supporters, Mr. Trump returned to his armored SUV and demanded he go to the Capitol with the crowd. I started. He protests the certification of Congress.
“Probably within at least 30 seconds of hearing the crowd size and getting in the car,” the driver testified. He added that crowd size was always a source of interest for Trump, and that “it was very typical of that president.”
She said Trump doesn’t seem convinced that the unscheduled visit poses a national security threat, given that the crowd at the Capitol is his supporters.
“I don’t remember exactly what triggered it or how that part of the conversation unfolded naturally, but he was trying to push it pretty hard,” the agent testified. She added, “What struck me most was that he kept asking why we couldn’t go, why we couldn’t go, and didn’t care about the people who were there, or if they were Trumpists.” He also failed to mention that he was a Trump supporter.” ”
At some point during the trip to the Ellipse or back, the driver testified, Mr. Trump and Mr. Engel discussed why people in the crowd were being kept away from the speech venue, and Mr. Engel asked the president to I spoke like this. There were “some kind of prohibitions.”
Mr. Trump’s actions in the motorcade were highlighted by Mr. Hutchinson’s blockbuster testimony. She said she was told by Mr. Ornato that when Mr. Trump was told he could not go to the Capitol to join his supporters, he tried to grab the steering wheel of his car. . Ms. Hutchinson also said that Mr. Ornato told her that the president had “rushed” on Mr. Engel.
Secret Service officials have long disputed some of that account. Officials said Mr. Engel, Mr. Ornato and the driver of the Suburban were not able to take Mr. Trump to the Capitol, despite Mr. Trump stressing to the agents that it was too dangerous to do so. He said he was able to confirm that he had requested to go.
Still, the driver said he did not expect violence at the Capitol and was surprised by what he saw.
“What happened at the Capitol was mind-bogglingly awful and appalling,” he said. “At that point, it was clear what was going on in the city and in the Capitol. It was truly a betrayal of the expectations of a civilized society.”
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